Friday, June 27, 2008

Obama jeopardizes Irish American support

You may or may not have heard of a woman called Trina Vargo who has been extremely hostile to undocumented Irish immigrants. Unfortunately, (at least according to Vargo) she is the outreach woman for Barack Obama on Irish American issues. This is some surprise to the ILIR, let me tell you, given that we are the largest active group in Irish America. She's never done any outreach to us, and she'll never be forgiven for likening undocumented Irish to lipstick and pigs. Hopefully someone in the Obama camp sees this train crash before it happens. Vargo will seriously jeopardize his chances of winning the Irish American vote. See below for two pieces by Brian O'Dwyer and Niall O'Dowd.


Wonder Lust said...

The undocumented Irish don't vote. Or do they?

Anonymous said...

Undocumented Irish do not vote...but their Irish American friends and family do!As can all Americans descended from all nationalities.Your point wonder lust?

George said...

I am involved in politics, as a progressive, and I tell you, there's a debate in the Democratic party between us and the DLC (the "centrists") regarding immigration reform. There isn't a consensus yet, but all understand that this is a huge problem needs fixin.

The last imm bill was a crappy one, because too many cons had to be appeased, and in the end, nothing was enough. The Senate WILL change this election, so there's hope for a better (much improved) legislation.

As a political scientist, I'm seeing a potential new re-allignment, IF Obama and the Dems in Congress play it right. The Irish, Italians, Greeks, etc, were brought into the system by the Dem party over a hundred years ago.

Although, the process was corrupt (big city pol machine) it resulted in a many-generations' support for the party. Those imms and their families have been solidly behind the Dem party. Obviously, things have changed and today a sensible imm reform can benefit not only the undocumented by the country as a whole.

Presently, there's similar trend (imms supporting the Dems by 60 to 40%), but this needs to be captured and solidified BY MEANINGFUL IMM REFORM. I'm also arguing that the Dem party and its nominee will benefit politically by enacting legislation in the early 2009.

Indeed, in politics votes do matter, so let's make them understand that there's political gain besides the fairness principle. A country of immigrants should not keep another class of immigrants in the shaddows.

The Republican party is turning more conservative because it's shrinking, which means that a McCain presidency will not produce any meaningful imm reform. Perhaps after a big defeat, they'll reconsider and move away from their ultra-conservative base.

I don't know what Obama will do for imm reform, to be honest, but I believe there are strong forces (like Kennedy, Leahy, etc) that do want a comprehensive reform. Obama needs to be "educated" on this issue, so he can see the importance of it and the benefits.

Those who have roots here, and have stayed out of trouble are part of this country already and should be given the legal standing quickly.

wonder lust said...

My point? Nice of you to ask, and I will be happy to supply it, though I am doubtful this non-PC opinion will get through your moderator. In my own family, I vote differently than other members of my family. We fight like cats and dogs, and have a wide range of political opinion. Among the Irish in Ireland, the dominant opinion overwhelmingly says that the illegal Irish in America are in a situation that they have voluntarily put themselves into, and have only themselves to blame. Irish-Americans, such as myself, overwhelming oppose illegal immigration, and want foreigners to obey the laws when they come to this country, whether to visit, attend school, or to do business.
Why is it that only immigration reform is proposed in terms of "comprehensive". We don't hear of "comprehensive marriage" reform proposed as a solution to gay marriage; we don't hear we hear that "comprehensive" war reform is needed in Iraq, or the we need "comprehensive" economic reforms. Political action is done piecemeal.

The reason immigration reform is presented as "comprehensive", because it allows the politicians to do nothing. Each can always point his finger at the other and say - "It's his fault. He wasn't comprehensive enough."

Anonymous said...

Wonder Lust said...
"Irish-Americans, such as myself, overwhelming oppose illegal immigration, and want foreigners to obey the laws when they come to this country, whether to visit, attend school, or to do business."

The system of broken immigration laws you mean? If they were so perfect why do we have this situation? The existing laws were poorly devised without any foresight. They have failed to keep up with present time. For this reason there is an urgent need for a "Comprehensive" Immigration Reform (from the ground up.) The new system has to be smart and efficient and should do away with the current backlog and be more accessible to anyone who wants to migrate legally.

So for you (Wonder Lust) I must reiterate, you do not represent the majority of the Irish Americans. You belong in that 2% who voted for Duncan Hunter and Tancredo hoping to nominate a Know Nothing Jackass.

And last time I heard, 2% doesn't make up the majority.

wonder lust said...

Great dialog Anomy. And I have to say what an enlightening educational opportunity this has been - and I haven't even been thrown out yet.

Yes indeed, I am referring to the system of immigration laws, which are sometimes " broken" by willing foreign nationals. I voted for neither Tancredo, nor Hunter, but rather Paul. For whom did you vore?

What country today has the sort of smart and efficient type of immigration system that the US can adopt and emulate?

Anonymous said...

wonder lust said...
"Yes indeed, I am referring to the system of immigration laws, which are sometimes " broken"..."

Ah at least you agree to the fact that the system IS broken. My point is made! Now I have mentioned earlier, that if the system was efficient it would have allowed for people to come here legally. No immigrant wants to be in the undocumented category. The system has failed and it need to be overhauled by adopting a "Comprehensive Immigration Reform."

LOL Ron Paul who? Ahh that stupid Ideologist. How many times did he goof up during the GOP debates? At least 8 times??. He garnered how many percentage votes in the GOP primary? 5%! a little better than the other 2 baboons. 5% is still a Minority! if you voted for him I can clearly understand your thinking process.

I rest my case.....

wonder lust said...

You are the best, Anomy! You've just proved my first point - undocumented aliens don't vote - by virtue of the fact that you refuse to answer my question. I get to LOL now.

To be comprehensive, any immigration reform must take into account the impact on environment and population growth. Such techniques as "carbon tax" or "cap & trade" mechanisms could be employed. For example, if an immigrant enters a nation with a high-carbon footprint (such as the USA), then there should be a corresponding reduction of population from a low-carbon footprint nation such as India - perhaps 5 Indians would be the equivalent of one resident of the USA. Or the immigrant to the US could simply pay the carbon tax in cash. With the threat of global warming, such will be the immigration policies of the future.

And I don't have to educate you about the math, do I? The population of the US doubles every 50 years. The US is currently the 3rd most populous nation, after China and India. The US population growth rate is among the the top 10 worldwide. Now over 300 million, the US population will reach 600 million at mid-century and over 1 billion at century's end. ZPG is an idea whose time has come. I rest my case.

Anonymous said...

"...This 4th of July, we should all remember where we came from, before we open our big mouths against those traveling the same road of hope of our parents. If you don’t know where you came from, or the real story of how your family got here, odds are, they struggled for the same acceptance, equality, and citizenship that you fight so hard to keep others from getting...."

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